MENOPAUSE AND THE WORKPLACE
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Episode 226:
Show Notes
Episode 226:
Transcript
Dr Mary Barson (0:04) Hello, my lovely friends. I am Dr Mary Barson Barson.
Dr Lucy Burns (0:09) And I'm Dr Lucy Burns. We are doctors and weight management and metabolic health experts.
Both (0:16) And this is the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast!
Dr Lucy Burns (0:23) Hello, lovelies. We are super excited to be bringing you this series in Menopause, where we're interviewing guests on their expert subjects regarding perimenopause, menopause, and beyond. As always, any information in this podcast is just considered general advice and we would urge you to seek medical attention if you have any concerns about your health. If you're interested in exploring the symptoms of menopause or perimenopause, we have a checklist that you can download at our website, www.rlmedicine.com/checklist or as always, you can click the link in the show notes. Thanks, lovelies, enjoy this series!
Dr Lucy Burns (00:58) Good morning, gorgeous friend, Dr Lucy here on a beautiful Tuesday morning here in Melbourne. And I have a special guest, which I love. I love talking to incredibly smart diligent, amazing women and as I have this morning, my beautiful guest, Mel Kettle is one such woman. Mel, welcome to the podcast.
Mel Kettle (01:20) Oh, it's so good to see you, Lucy. Thanks for having me on.
Dr Lucy Burns (01:24) Oh, you are welcome. So lovelies, you know that we've been talking a fair bit about menopause, a lot on medical management of menopause or the psychological effects of menopause. But Mel is going to talk to us about menopause in the workplace. And given many of us either have worked, are working, or want to work in paid employment, this is a really, really pertinent topic. So Mel, tell us a little bit about you and I guess what your experiences are of menopause in the workplace.
Mel Kettle (01:55) So my background is 25, probably almost 30 years in marketing and communication. More recently, I have worked at the crossroads between the leadership space and the communication space. So I work with a lot of leaders and teams and boards to help them communicate, to create real connections and sustained engagement. And because of the kind of work I do, an enormous, number of the people I work with are women in their forties and fifties and a bit older. And I really started noticing that menopause is becoming a big issue for all of us. Certainly was for me when I was going through perimenopause about 10 years ago. So I just started talking about why we need to be talking about menopause at work and at home, obviously. But how do we better educate ourselves, our colleagues and our employers so that we can feel more supported in the workplace when we go through this experience in life?
Dr Lucy Burns (02:50) Yeah, absolutely. And I think what I love is that you've been talking about this for a long time now. 10 years. Yeah. More than 10 years. Which, you know, menopause, I wrote a little post not that long ago saying I feel like I'm late to the menopause party because it is, it is much more talked about now and the profile has been raised a lot, but you were out there beating the drum for all of the perimenopause women way before anybody else was.
Mel Kettle (03:19) And I feel like I was just talking into a void for a very, very long time. I think that COVID kind of helped bring a bit of it to the forefront because a lot of women, like I'm 54, and a lot of women who are my age, were starting to go through menopause and perimenopause as COVID started in 2020, you know, late 40s, 50. I was young. I started going through it in my early 40s and I was done by the time I was 48. So even my female GP told me that I couldn't possibly be going through perimenopause when I rocked up with my symptoms because I was too young.
Dr Lucy Burns (03:55) Yeah, absolutely. And I guess now we are more informed, hopefully, that the early 40s is the prime time for peri.
Mel Kettle (04:04) Oh, there's, there's so many resources around now. So, you know, 10, 12 years ago, there was nothing really that wasn't in a medical journal or written by a man. There was, you know, a male doctor. There was very little research that was being done about menopause. There were no real books written about it in any best-selling way. And now I look at my bookshelf and I've got a whole row, like a very long row, of books that are all about women's middle-life health and menopause. And there are amazing books like The Menopause Manifesto by Dr Jen Gunter, who's a Canadian OBGYN menopause specialist. There's a book about menopause by Kaz Cooke, who's a writer, Australian writer and comedian who did so much research, including a survey of thousands of Australian women if you want to learn good facts and have a good laugh, get Kaz Cooke's book. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Lucy Burns (04:57) I certainly remember reading her pregnancy book, Up the Duff, which was again, right back when Tom Pippa got up the Duff.
Mel Kettle (05:05) And now she's going through menopause and that's why she wrote it. Because all of her books have come about through her personal experience with her kids or her friends’ kids. And look at there are so many celebrities now who are starting to talk about menopause and who are writing books about their experiences. So. It's slowly breaking through the stigma and the taboo nature that it's had since the beginning of time.
Dr Lucy Burns (05:34) Yeah, absolutely. And I'm hoping as part of that, that the women beyond menopause, so, you know, there's again, there's a lot of chat at the moment about perimenopause, which is, you know, as we like to call it, you know, it's mayhem for your hormones and up and down and it's really chaotic, but then, you know, over time people obviously, transition through and reach menopause and then become post-menopausal, which then puts them into the bucket of, you know, has been an old woman. And that has also got to change.
Mel Kettle (06:08) Yeah, it does. It does. And there's a few things there. I think that as your listeners may know, menopause is one day and it's the one day that marks 12 months since your last period finished. And so everything before that is peri and everything after that is post. There's a fairly strong misconception with a lot of women that when they go through that one menopausal day all of their symptoms will magically go away. I really hate to be the one to break it to you, but they don't. I'm starting to get hot flushes again at the moment and night sweats and it's like, oh, what's causing that? Fairly sure it's the red wine I've been drinking in the evening because it's cold, but they don't go away, they can come back. And the other thing I think that it's really important to remember and to realise is that not every woman has awful symptoms. The data shows that 20% of women go through menopause or go through perimenopause and the only change is that their periods change. 20% of women have such extreme symptoms that it's really debilitating to their whole world. And then the other 60% have some symptoms and they notice that there's Some negativity around it in how they feel and how they want to work and, and how they live, but it doesn't have that debilitating factor of the second 20% that I mentioned. And then the other thing that we need to remember is that every woman has a different experience. Not every woman has the same symptoms and has the same symptoms at the same time. I've got one friend who, when she used to get hot flushes, she would vomit. I've got an, I know when I used to get hot flushes, I would get multiple times a day, and then I'd be really, really hot, and then I'd be really, really cold, and then I'd feel normal again. Yeah, it's like living in Melbourne. Hot flushes when you're outside in a cafe in Brisbane in summer is not a pleasant thing.
Dr Lucy Burns (08:14) No, I can imagine. I can imagine.
Mel Kettle (08:16) But then I also, you know, there are things that you can do to look after yourself and to protect yourself. And I certainly got to know my body. And the more you know your body, the more you can identify, hopefully, what triggers some of the symptoms. So I know for me, drinking caffeine triggered hot flushes. Drinking alcohol at night would mean that I'd be more likely to have night sweats and not sleep as well. So I would get to a point where I'd go, right, how much do I want to have a coffee versus how much do I want to have a hot flush? And I started just drinking coffee on the weekends occasionally. So I really didn't drink coffee for about five years.
Dr Lucy Burns (09:00) Yeah, I think that's such good advice. And I think I really liked the way that you framed the, everyone has different experiences. And I was thinking as you were chatting, it, you know, again, a bit like pregnancy, you know, it's a woman, it's hormones. You'll have some women have, don't even know they're pregnant. You'll have other women with, you know, a bit of mild morning sickness. And then you've got women being admitted to hospital with hyperemesis from severe morning sickness and dehydration, and it's the whole spectrum. And you can even think that people's Experiences of those will be different. So for example, if you don't want to be pregnant, then any little bit of morning sickness is going to be really terrible for you because you don't even really want it. If you're desperate, for a baby, a little bit of morning sickness might reassure you and you sort of embrace it. So, the same physical symptom with the same degree can be interpreted differently by different people. And I guess it's exactly the same with menopause.
Mel Kettle (10:00) Yeah, that's certainly been my observation from talking with friends about it. And you know, I'm just going to reiterate, I'm not a doctor and I'm not a medical professional. And so a lot of what I talk about is reassuring to people because I've come through the other side and with the exception of a bit of sleeplessness every now and then, all of my symptoms have gone. And the other thing that I think we don't ever talk about with menopause is coming through the other side, I've got so much more energy. I feel I'm really creative and I've got an energy and a zest for life that is amplified. I've always been energetic and I've always had, I've always been a go-getter, but at this stage of my life, it's even more than it ever has been. And that's a really positive thing. And I think we need to be looking at the positives of coming through the other side and even the positives of going through it. You know, most, there's a lot of women in the past who won't get to this stage. And generations ago, women, the life expectancy was 50. And so, or shortly thereafter and so a lot of women would die while they were going through menopause, or they would go through it and then they would die because that was just what life expectancy was like generations ago. But now you can be working for 30 years after you've gone through menopause and so to have that energy and to have that enthusiasm for life is something that needs to be focused more on. I did just a super funny story. I did an interview with Sky News about why we need to talk about menopausal work. And as it happened, the queen died a couple of days before I was doing this interview. And they said to me - Do you reckon you could tie in the Queen's death with menopause? And so I was asking some friends and one of them said, well, you could say that she worked for 50 years after having menopause. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I thought that's impressive. Yeah. One more impressive thing that she has done.
Dr Lucy Burns (12:10) And I think that's part of the story that needs to change, isn't it? That we are not used up. We're not has-beens. In fact, I've been just recently coining this phrase, the glory years, and that your post-menopause is your glory years. And whether you choose to use your glory years in the workplace, whether you choose to use it as your retirement, whatever it is, what we want to be is the healthiest version of ourselves in those glory years.
Mel Kettle (12:38) Oh, absolutely. And I love that phrase, the glory years because I certainly know it. My 50s are my best decade yet. My 40s were fantastic. My 30s were, yeah, they had some good things. My 20s, again, had some good things, had some not-great things. But in my 50s, I've got a level of confidence in myself that I've never had before. And my, can I swear? Yeah. My fuck it factor for what other people think is pretty much zero. Yes. I've got a close group of friends whose opinions I seek and who's, who I value, but everybody else. Yeah. Not so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not so much. Especially if they're strangers on the internet.
Dr Lucy Burns (13:28) Yes. I, and I think you're right. This is, you do, develop this sense of self. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not as governed by peer group pressure, because you've basically spent 30 years weeding, weeding through, weeding through the weeds, getting through the weeds, getting rid of the dud friends, cultivating the good friends, and you know what it is that you want. And, you know, you're not afraid. Like, I remember FOMO, missing out, afraid of missing out on something was always such a big driver. I would go to everything just in case what I missed out, you know, I missed out on something. Now, now I've got JOMO where I just, I don't want to do it.
Mel Kettle (14:11) Yeah. Yeah. I've got lots of JOMO as well. Joy of missing out in case you're wondering what JOMO is. And I think that's the other thing, like, I've done a lot of work on myself. I've got a very high level of self-awareness, and I'm very clear on my personal values, my personal priorities, my priorities as being part of a couple, and my husband's priorities. I know what his are, and I know what mine are, and I know where they align, and I know where they don't. And I'm happy with all of that because we've had many conversations together about it. I'm very aware of my goals in life, both personally and professionally. And I'm extremely aware of how other people perceive me. You know, so when, when there's an essayist that comes out and goes, Oh, look at you, I can go, I don't even know you. So why are you wasting your energy? Why would I waste my energy on giving you a thought?
Dr Lucy Burns (15:28) Yes, yes. I love that. And again, if we think of thoughts like, like money, there are only so many, so why would we give them to people we don't care about?
Mel Kettle (15:38) Exactly. And I know you will appreciate this. It's like meals. You've only got so many meals that you eat in life. And why would you eat a shitty one when you don't have to?
Dr Lucy Burns (15:47) Yeah, totally. Totally. In fact, sometimes we have a little story, which is a really good analogy for people when they get stuck on, particularly, If somebody has hurt them or somebody's bothering them or somebody, you know, is just taking up a whole heap of their brain space. One of our analogies is to talk to them about their brain space as being like real estate. And so you've got your beachfront penthouse real estate. That's where you put all the people that you care about. And every now and then what you'll find is that some person who you really don't care that much about has somehow ended up in your penthouse. When really they belong in the old dunny out the back.
Mel Kettle (16:33) And so you just take the redback spider under the toilet seat
Dr Lucy Burns (16:38) and just remind your brain that actually they don't get penthouse real estate, they get the dunny and you can go back to enjoying your beautiful ocean views.
Mel Kettle (16:0460) I love that. I'm going to use that. That's so good. So good. Yes.
Dr Lucy Burns (16:52) Feel free. Feel free, lovely. Now let's talk a little bit about why workplaces should be interested in menopause and what your thoughts are around that.
Mel Kettle (17:03) Yeah, so the data shows that roughly 20% of most workplaces are made up of women who are going through perimenopause. So if you look at women in your workplace who are in their 40s through to maybe mid-50s, Chances are they're going through perimenopause or in the very early stages of postmenopause. And that's approximately 3 million women. One of my clients crunched the numbers and worked out that 47% of their workplace was women in their forties and they were doing nothing. Until we had a conversation about raising awareness of menopause in their workplace. So the other thing that we need to think about is that this is a time when there are a lot of women who are reaching the peak of their careers. And so think about how you feel when you're reaching the peak of your career in a job that you love in an organisation where you feel aligned and valued. And then all of a sudden your hormones start to go a bit batshit crazy and give you symptoms like hot flushes and not sleeping, but even worse, they give you extreme anxiety and they give you brain fog and you start to forget things and self-doubt starts to come in bigger than it ever has, even when you were a teenager. And so the impact of that, it makes you feel really lonely and like you don't belong. And we know from other research that when you. feel like you don't belong, or when you are in a workplace where you don't belong, there's more absenteeism in that workplace. There are more accidents in that workplace. There are more manufacturing issues and defects that are created. Productivity declines and when all of these things happen, profit declines. And so that is why it's so important for workplaces to have an understanding of what menopause is. is and how they can support women going through it. And that isn't to say that they shouldn't be supporting other people going through other things. They absolutely should. But I'm here today to talk about menopause.
Dr Lucy Burns (19:02) Indeed. Indeed. And as you said, if you're a woman, the chances of you going through menopause are about a hundred%, unless you're dead. And if you have a large proportion of women, and can you imagine, like I'm thinking, Places like hospitals, where the vast schools, caring professions, the vast majority of those institutions and organisations are staffed by women. But even corporate, obviously there are buckets of women in corporate. And now as women have returned to the workforce over the last 30 years, they're now entering that, you know, C suite jobs and they're, they've got really important responsibilities.
Mel Kettle (19:52) Yeah, they do. And that's why it's important to understand what menopause is, how it impacts women, and what the flow-on effect is. So we all know that if we have a team member or a colleague who's not at work or who's not performing at their best, then some of their workload ends up on your shoulders. And so that's just one of the many reasons why it's really important that organisations have an awareness and can put. Plans processes and programs are in place so that women going through it feel more supported just as you would do hopefully for women in your organisation who are going through pregnancy or For people who are going through an illness or who are caring for other people a loved one. What are the processes you've got in place for those circumstances and situations and how can you modify those to help women going through menopause? And bearing in mind that not every woman is going to need it. Some will need a little bit more than others and some will need next to nothing. But the important thing is, is to show empathy and to ask, what is it that you need? How can I help you? And Let's be real. As a manager, every manager should be asking their staff, what do you need from me to do your job better? It doesn't matter who that staff member is. That's a question that should be asked on a very regular basis. How can I help you? What do you need? Do you have everything you need? Do you feel supported? Do you understand what needs to be done? If not, how can I help you?
Dr Lucy Burns (21:29) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that because people, I mean, people spend a lot of time at work, like it's a lot of hours in a day, a lot of hours, days in our week, a lot of years in our life. And the way you feel about your work impacts your health.
Mel Kettle (21:48) I read somewhere a while ago that your manager has a greater impact on your health than your doctor. I wouldn't be surprised at all. Yeah, and I certainly look back to managers I had when I was an employee and one of them led me to be phenomenally unwell and burnt out, and that took me a good two years to recover. Another one made me feel so nurtured and loved and supported that I wanted to work with her for the rest of my working life.
Dr Lucy Burns (22:15) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God. Bags be like leaders be. It's interesting, I would never have started Real Life Medicine if I hadn't had a horrible manager. Because, again, I was in a workplace that was fun. I had lots of friends there. The work was good. And then we got a new manager and she just made, you people's life a living hell and no one felt supported. Everyone left in droves. And yeah, everyone, I just thought, Oh.
Mel Kettle (22:46) That's pretty much why I work for myself as well. I had a job that I loved and then, but I had a manager that I didn't love and I wanted to work part-time. My application was rejected because I was a 30-something-year-old woman without children.
Dr Lucy Burns (22:58) Oh, how very dare you want to work part-time.
Mel Kettle (23:00) And so I resigned and that was 18 years ago. And that was one of the best decisions I have ever made.
Dr Lucy Burns (23:07) Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. So what do you say to people though, who in the workplace, who perhaps, my biggest fear with a lot of women's health is the weaponising of women's hormones, which we hear all the time when somebody, you know, a woman might be being assertive and somebody will say to her, why have you got your knickers in your knot? Are you on your period? Awful. Hopefully, they don't still do that, but I suspect they do. Or now behind sort of whispered hands, Oh God, she's going through menopause. Like all of those sorts of derogatory statements. How, how do we manage those?
Mel Kettle (23:54) It's a really difficult line with how to manage those because so many of those comments are made by people who subtly and not in front of other people. So there's so much gaslighting around that. I'm sure I don't need to tell many of your listeners what that feels like. Again, it comes back down to an organisation having really clear policies and procedures and around what are you going to tolerate? What behaviour do you tolerate? Do you tolerate bullying? Yes, no. If your policy says but you do, then what are you doing about it? And again, that comes back to that question of how can I support you. How can I support you to do a better job? What is it that you need from me? And women, well, anybody in a workplace, they're not going to say this person's being mean to me, or this person's being you know, horrible, or I don't understand how to do this, or I'm feeling this way because of menopause or whatever else is going on. If they don't have a sense of trust. And so the first thing that you need to be thinking about as a manager is how, or, as an organisation how do we build a culture of connection and a culture of trust so that everybody feels like they belong at work? Because when you feel like you belong at work, it's so much easier to have these conversations about things that are thought of as being embarrassing.
Dr Lucy Burns (25:19) Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And when people feel like they belong at work, then that, you know, again, if we want to go down a bottom line, they will be more productive.
Mel Kettle (25:27) Absolutely. They will be though, they absolutely will be. And there's a lot of data that shows when you feel like you belong at work, you work more cohesively as a team. And we all know what it's like when we go to an organisation, like, you know, when you go to your local supermarket or you go to any business and you're served by somebody who's having a bad day and they're cranky and grumpy. We all know what that's like. And that subconsciously makes you feel worse about that organisation because you had a bad service experience. It's really important to remember that service begins within the organisation. So your number one priority should be your staff. Your number two priority should be your paying customers. Because if you don't have staff who feel like they belong, and who love their job, then your customers will get the sense that they don't like their job. And so why would I give them my money or my time or whatever it is you want from the customer?
Dr Lucy Burns (26:29) Yeah, I love that. So yeah, you're, you're basically saying even within all the menopause women, it's all just around the culture of leadership.
Mel Kettle (26:40) It really is. It really is. And it's also as a leader, if you're a woman in a leadership position and you're going through menopause, how much are you talking about your experience with your team and with your colleagues? And I'm not saying that you need to be sharing every little last, you know, symptom and experience and feeling, but you can broadly say, I'm going through menopause and I feel a bit crap today, or I didn't sleep much last night. Or in a meeting, I've forgotten what I was meant to say because I've got menobrain, or I'm having a hot flush and can someone turn the air conditioning down because I need it to be cooler in here, or excuse me while I just take off yet another layer of clothing. Yeah. Yeah. Like talking about it as a leader and as a manager will give permission to other people in your organisation who might not have the confidence that you do to talk about it as well. And that is where you can get those shared feelings and we know from other research that when you feel like you share an experience with someone, you are much more likely to trust that person.
Dr Lucy Burns (27:54) Yes. Yes, totally. I think, you know, people are probably scared to be, vulnerable as a leader because you know, you are meant to be the impervious, you know, brilliant, you know, non-human person, and then you're suddenly showing some humanity, some perceived what might be perceived as weaknesses, but if they're, if you are the leader and you don't perceive it as a weakness, then why would everyone else.
Mel Kettle (28:23) Exactly. I had a client at the beginning of COVID-19 who had a staff member who was just going through a whole lot of stuff. And she knew that this staff member was going through a whole lot of stuff, even though she didn't know what the stuff was, because her level of work was declining rapidly. And, I said to this client, do your staff and your team know what you're going through right now? Because she was going through a really ugly relationship breakdown that was about to go through the court system in a very nasty, expensive way. And this client said, no, I haven't mentioned that to anybody. And I said I think you should. I think you don't need to give them any details, but you just need to say to them, if you're thinking that I'm not myself at the moment, it's because I'm not. I'm going through a court system, as you know, my partner and I have broken up. And if they didn't know that, you might want to just tell them that as well, because it will explain a lot of your behavior to them. And, just say the lawyers are involved. That's all you need to say. There are lawyers involved. And given that a lot of her staff had gone through a divorce or major relationship breakdown, they will get that. And so by you sharing that big picture thing about what's happening in your world outside of the office, that might encourage other people to share some of the big picture things that are happening to them, so you can get a better understanding of what's happening in their life so that you can have more. empathy when things aren't necessarily working out for them as you would like them to.
Dr Lucy Burns (29:55) Yeah, absolutely. And so women going through menopause, I mean, there's stats talking about women who leave the workforce because their symptoms, you know, they feel like they're not doing their job properly or they're, they can't perform or you know, or they're just, you know, they haven't slept for three weeks. You know, what advice do you have for them?
Mel Kettle (30:19) It's such a big decision to leave the workforce because of menopause or for any reason, particularly if you really don't want to. My advice for them is to speak to someone about it, whether it's their GP, start with a GP, or start with your doctor because there are things that you can do to make you feel better. There's drugs, there's medication, there's lifestyle changes, but you know, there's drugs and medications. So find out. who you need to be talking to about that? And if you don't have a doctor or a primary care doctor who has a lot of knowledge about menopause, and most don't because of, you know, the way that they're taught and how long ago they went to university to study, go to the Australasian Menopause Society because they have a directory of doctors in Australia, New Zealand, and I think in Canada, who have done additional training around menopause and midlife women's health. So talk to one of them and find out. Just find out first of all if it is menopause that's causing you, whatever it is that's causing you to want to leave work. Because once you know what the cause is, you can start treatment to make it better or to lessen the symptoms and make you feel better. Also talk to somebody at work about it, whether you've got, you know, if you can trust your manager or somebody else in your organisation, share with them what you're feeling and going through and ask if there's a solution for you to work less hours. If you need to move to part-time temporarily have less responsibilities, if that's what's causing you grief and anxiety. You know, leaving the workforce should be the last resort. The research that you said, I can't remember what the exact statistics are, but I remember reading that. I think it's one in eight women leave the workforce because of menopause. And another two out of eight would leave it if they could afford to. Yeah, that's a lot. That's a big drain on the workforce.
Dr Lucy Burns (32:17) And it's all that corporate knowledge that goes with it, their years of experience. And as you've started at the start of our conversation, The symptoms go away eventually.
Mel Kettle (32:30) They do go away.
Dr Lucy Burns (32:31) And you come out the other side, you know, feeling glorious. And I mean, we've done a few podcasts on this, earlier. We did one on with a neuropsychologist around particularly memory loss. Cause I think what happens is women get worried. They're losing it, that they're losing their mind.
Mel Kettle (32:54) That was my biggest symptom was short-term memory loss and anxiety. They were my two biggest. I thought I was going through early-onset dementia because Alzheimer's runs in our family. And when I discovered that it was a menopause symptom, my relief was just off the charts. Yeah.
Dr Lucy Burns (33:13) Absolutely. And the thing about that memory loss is that that's transient. It comes back.
Mel Kettle (33:19) Oh yeah. That's all gone now. I'm good now. Yeah. I still can't always remember, you know, to put the bin out, but I do have a thousand alarms on my phone that I use all the time. But that's okay. That's because I focus on things and I just lose track of time because my memory is crap. I was reading a book called Remember by, the woman who wrote Still Alice. Lisa, somebody wrote that. And she talks about memory and she says, it's one thing to forget where you've put your keys. It's another thing to forget what the keys are for. And she said if you just forget where you put your keys, that's normal. It's once you've got them in your hand and you go, what are they? What do I use them for? That's when you need to be worried.
Dr Lucy Burns (34:10) Yeah. Ah, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Cause honestly, I mean, we look and go, why do we forget where we put the keys? Cause we've got a million things often on our mind and it's that, you know, we're not concentrating. We are not mindful. We're thinking about the next 20 other things on our list. Yeah. So this has been a wonderful chat now. I really, really appreciate your time. And I absolutely grateful for all the work that you've been doing in the menopause space in the workplace, because You know, I think that we need to have conversations. We need to not be worried about it. It's a normal physiological phase that every woman will go through. And that there's stuff we can do to support ourselves and stuff that workplaces can do to support their workers.
Mel Kettle (35:05) Yep. So many things. Have starting conversations. That's the biggest thing. Absolutely. Just start the conversation. Have a lunch and learn about menopause. What menopause is? World Menopause Day is in October. That's an opportunity for you to do it. You could do it in mental health month or week or whatever we have for mental health. You could do it for Women's Health Month. There are lots of opportunities where you can legitimately run something on menopause in your workplace. If you're looking for a reason or an excuse, and if you don't need a reason or excuse, then plan to do something in the next two weeks. Absolutely. I love that. And I'm certainly happy to have a chat if you would like information about how you can do that. And what you could do, and I'm happy to come and talk to you as well.
Dr Lucy Burns (35:49) Great. If people do wanna connect with you, Mel, how, and where do they find you?
Mel Kettle (35:52) Yeah, so through my website is best melkettle.com. I'm on LinkedIn as well, as Instagram. Everything's at Mel Kettle. I do have some resources around menopause, and how you can start having conversations about menopause in your workplace. So you can just go to mel kettle.com/menopause and they're free, you can download them. There are some books and podcasts and some suggestions for how you can broach the subject in your workplace, or if you're in the wellness section or the HR department, then there are some suggestions as to where you can go to get resources and information that you can put on your intranet, posters you can put in your toilets, on your notice boards in your staff room.
Dr Lucy Burns (36:31) Yeah, that's brilliant. And in fact, we'll put that link in our show notes as well so if you're driving while you're listening to this or, you're not sort of magically sitting in front of your computer. We will, you can go to the show notes and download those, links as well. And, that sounds fantastic because I think, you know, the more we talk about it, the less taboo it becomes, the less normal it becomes, you know, menopause. Oh yeah, it's, you know, Oh, it's menopause. It's, you know, it's like, Oh, Oh, they've got a cold, you know, it's just normal. It's what normal humans are.
Mel Kettle (37:00) I would love to see it. women going through menopause embraced with as much love as women who announced they're having a baby. Yes. Yes. Wouldn't that be amazing? That would be. Because it's, you know, it's a hormonal change of life and it should be a celebration because it marks moving from one part of life to another.
Dr Lucy Burns (37:19) Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, again, in one of our earlier podcasts, we talked about, you know, puberty, everyone anticipates puberty. Everyone knows that puberty is a time of upheaval, that teenagers will not necessarily, you know, behave as they would normally, and we all anticipate it and it's accepted but somehow at the end, when we have exactly the same hormonal upheaval as a woman, you're not supposed to talk.
Mel Kettle (37:48) And if you do, it's in whispers and you're belittled and laughed at, and that needs to change.
Dr Lucy Burns (37:55) We need to stop. I mean, we need to actually stop belittling all physiological changes, you know, so that we can just be normal humans, not hiding behind a shroud of shame. Shroud of shame. A shroud of shame. Sh of shame. Indeed. Wonderful. Alright, gorgeous listeners, thank you so much for spending time with Mel and me this week and as always, we'll I will be back next week probably with Dr Mary. Have a wonderful week and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening.
Mel Kettle (38:26) Thanks, everyone.
Dr Lucy Burns (38:30) The information shared on the Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast, including show notes and links, provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.
