HOW TO GET MOTIVATED
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Episode 218:
Show Notes
In this week’s episode of The Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast, Dr Mary Barson and Dr Lucy Burns dive deep into the science of motivation, offering practical advice on how to cultivate it and sustain lasting change, even when motivation wanes.
Understanding Motivation
- Motivation is Fleeting: Dr Mary and Dr Lucy remind listeners that motivation is not constant; it ebbs and flows. Instead of relying on willpower, they stress the importance of building habits that function independently of fleeting motivation.
- The episode covers how to tap into intrinsic motivation by focusing on what truly matters to you. When changes align with core values and goals, it becomes easier to stay consistent.
Behavioural Science and The Habit Loop
- The doctor duo breaks down the Habit Loop: Cue → Desire → Response → Reward. By understanding this loop, you can consciously design your environment and routines to reinforce positive behaviours while disrupting negative patterns.
- They explore how cravings and rewards drive habits, encouraging listeners to identify triggers and reframe rewards to suit healthier behaviours.
The Stages of Change and Overcoming Resistance
- The process of change involves several stages: Pre-Contemplation, Contemplation, Preparation, Action, and Maintenance. Dr Mary and Dr Lucy highlight the importance of recognising where you are in this journey and setting realistic expectations.
- They delve into how to overcome the resistance that often surfaces during the contemplation phase, suggesting strategies like focusing on "pain points" (what you stand to lose by staying stagnant) and using the "Five Whys" technique to uncover deeper motivations.
Building and Sustaining Helpful Habits
- The episode emphasises the role of small, consistent actions. Rather than aiming for drastic changes, it’s more effective to commit to micro-habits that compound over time.
- Make Good Habits Easy and Bad Habits Difficult: Practical tips include designing your environment to make the desirable action the easiest choice, such as prepping healthy meals or setting out workout clothes the night before.
The Power of Structure and Support
- The 12 Week Mind Body Rebalance program offers a blueprint for sustainable transformation. The program’s structured framework, accountability, and community support are crucial in maintaining momentum even when motivation fades.
- Dr Lucy shares stories of how the program has helped participants break out of the all-or-nothing mindset and embrace progress over perfection.
Identity and Layers of Change
- They explore the three layers of change:
- Outcomes: These are the tangible goals or results you wish to achieve, such as weight loss or improved health markers.
- Processes: The day-to-day habits and routines that lead to those outcomes, like meal planning or regular exercise.
- Identity: The deeper transformation occurs when you start to see yourself as the type of person who consistently engages in these healthy behaviours. Shifting identity is key to sustaining change.
Episode 218:
Transcript
Dr Mary Barson (0:04) Hello, my lovely friends. I am Dr Mary Barson.
Dr Lucy Burns (0:09) And I'm Dr Lucy Burns Burns. We are doctors and weight management and metabolic health experts.
Both (0:16) And this is the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast!
Dr Lucy Burns (00:17): Hello, my lovely friend. How are you today? I'm joined by Dr Mary, and you can't see her because you're listening to us, unless you're watching it on YouTube, but she is wearing the most bright, exciting rainbow top. And again, just, I love it. Whenever I see her in that rainbow top, it makes me smile. And, uh, so, thanks for making me smile, Dr Mary.
Dr Mary Barson (00:39): Oh, you're most welcome. You're responsible for a fair few of my smiles too, Dr Lucy. Yes. I'm feeling good today. I am getting back into fasting after I sort of had a few months' hiatus from fasting because I got unwell. Unwell with this, ah, CSF leak issue, which we won't go into now, but anyway, I'm feeling much, much, much, much, much, much, much better now. And now that I'm much less, I'm better and there's much less stress on my body. I'm getting back into fasting and it's been interesting watching my brain because there was some resistance there, you know, to change state, to sort of go from not doing fasting and having my two or three meals every day to then doing some very safe, very nurturing, intermittent fasting. You know, my brain did kind of rebel, you know, there was, that's just a little, there was some resistance there that I had to work through and to find that motivation and which I'm doing really well. And actually now that I've started again, I'm like, Oh yes, I love this. And now I'm back into, back into the flow and enjoying the health benefits and enjoying how I feel. So it's going well, but it certainly has got me thinking about motivation as I had to troubleshoot ways to like motivate myself to get back into this habit that I actually love and I know is really helpful for me. And it actually isn't all that hard when done properly, when done safely, when done with love. So we can talk about motivation today.
Dr Lucy Burns (02:11): Yes. I think it's a great topic. How do I get motivated? Because motivation is what drives us to do actions. So I thought we'd talk a bit about motivation and the way I like to describe motivation. So it fits in beautifully with our thought model of thoughts, feelings, actions, and results. So motivation is a feeling. And when we feel motivated, we are more likely to do something. However, motivation, like all feelings, all feelings come and go. This is the whole thing with feelings, all emotions. We're never in a perpetual state of one emotion. So they will always come and go. And sometimes people get into the little trap of not acting or waiting, waiting for motivation to descend, like, you know, rain from the clouds for them to act. And I thought we'd talk today about where, you know, I've lost my motivation. Where is it? Where can you find it? Is it under a rock? How do you get it? Because honestly, when you learn this skill, when you learn how to find your motivation and, you know, just little newsflashes won't be under a rock, you can use it for anything. It's so helpful. It's such a great skill. It's not just about weight loss. This is a great skill for anything, anything that you put off. If you're a procrastinator, this will be your favourite episode of the century. Just putting it out there.
Dr Mary Barson (03:47): Absolutely. How do you break through that resistance? And yeah, right. The motivation is not a constant force. And if you were relying on having a constant supply of this magical motivation to do things that you find difficult or hard to begin with, then it's not a recipe for success. You need to have some skills to break it down. I think that it's really useful, for motivation, understanding motivation. I think it's very useful to understand how human behaviour works and, you know, why humans, you know, do anything. Why do we turn on the lights when we walk into a dark room? Why do we grab a drink of water when we're thirsty? Why do we grab a bucket of chocolate flop on the couch and watch Netflix when we're feeling stressed? Why do we do these things? And to be able to sort of break that down and understand, you can then construct a life for yourself where you're making the most helpful things. easy and more obvious, more rewarding. And then you're making the unhelpful things harder, less obvious, less rewarding. And you can do this so that it's just easy to do those helpful things, the things that are going to help serve you in the long term. And do less of those unhelpful things that might feel really good at the moment, in that brief moment of that big dopamine hit from the block of chocolate, but in the long run, don't serve you. And it's important to have these skills because naturally, our human brains, are very wired for the short term. We're very, very good at focusing on the short-term benefit at the expense of the long-term gain. No, the short-term benefit of having that sweet chocolate dopamine hit lying on the couch, being entertained at that moment, rather than having a cup of tea and going for a walk, which could be much more helpful, much more in line with your values and your goals. But in the moment it's not unpleasant, but it's just less pleasant than the other things. So yeah, understanding how our brains work, I think is really helpful. And fortunately for us, you know, there is a beautiful wealth of psychological research out there that has explained how human behaviour works. And there's kind of four parts to it. Every human behaviour has a cue. You know, a cue to start it, like the dark room, flick the lights on, it has a craving or a thing that we want. Yes, a desire. Yes. A desire. Yeah. So I want to see. That's the desire with, uh, you know, flicking on the lights and it has a response and that's the action that we take. And that is the desire. Putting your hand out and flicking the switch. And then there is the reward. I can see the lights are on. I've used a very unemotional, very obvious, simple example here just to highlight it.
Dr Lucy Burns (06:59): I know, but you know, the great thing about that example is everyone can relate to it. And then the thing about it is that we do it so often that it becomes one of our automatic or our subconscious. It's a habit. And we also know that let's say you go into a room and you know, the light bulb is broken. You still flick the switch.
Dr Mary Barson (07:22): I've been doing that for about six months for this. There's an electrical problem that can't be easily solved in the spare bathroom. And I still, every time I go in there at night, flick the switch on. Yes.
Dr Lucy Burns (07:33): And this is the, it's how you're demonstrating beautifully how I, you know, a whole bunch of neurons have wired together, they've still got the same cue, so they still fire off. And part of the reason we, what we want to do then, establish really good habits, habits that are really helpful, that become just part of who we are. And we just do, regardless, the ones that are helpful are really there. That's what we want and we want less of the ones that are unhelpful.
Dr Mary Barson (08:05): And you can use understanding this habit loop, the cue-desires-response-reward for forming new habits. And also, you know, breaking old habits, you can use it both ways when you understand how your brain works. And, you know, people that we think are really disciplined, have lots of willpower or are just highly motivated, they've got lots of motivation, haven't got any more motivation or discipline than the average person. It's just that their lives are constructed in a way that they don't need to use. Much disciplined, only to constantly rely on the limited supply of motivation. So yeah, here's how you just construct your life by working with your beautiful brain and these skills are learnable. And this is what we love to teach people, Dr Lucy.
Dr Lucy Burns (08:49): Indeed, indeed. You know, we spend a lot of time talking about behaviour changes, behavioural science, and, you know, we also know that there are phases in which people are ready for change. And you know, the traditional phrases would be pre-contemplation, which is where you're not even thinking about it. The contemplation where you're thinking, Oh, maybe it's time. You've got the preparation where you're getting ready yet, you know, you're going to make some changes and then you're actually doing the changes. And then, you know, there's this sort of maintenance phase. We call it vigilance. So a lot of people, they're in this pre-contemplation. Maybe you've got to the point where you've, you know, you've been told by your doctor, that you're pre-diabetic, or you've got type two diabetes, or you've grown out of your clothes, or there's something that's happened where you just go, you know what, I've got to do something, but it actually feels really hard and awful and we don't want to do it. So what are your thoughts there, Miss? You know, what do we usually say to help people?
Dr Mary Barson (09:53): A great thing to do is to start small. Just think of a small thing that you could do that would move you towards your goals. And then do that, achieve that, and then you can start to build a little self-confidence. And a great way to do that is,think of every possible way that you can to make the helpful thing easy.
Dr Lucy Burns (10:019): Yeah, absolutely. And the thing I would say is that, um, when you're in this phase, and we often call it purgatory because it does feel a little bit like hell on earth, feels awful. Everything feels so hard. And what people want to do then is just run away and pretend everything's fine. So a little trick that you can do with your brain is to again, remind yourself of all the things that are bad. I'm going to use air quotes again because you know, nothing's bad, but all the things that are not helping you stay where you are. So all the things that are not helping you are things like, you know, you've got joint pain, your clothes feel tight, you having trouble getting up off the couch, you're tired, you fall asleep after dinner, you're spending buckets of money on chocolate, like, write down everything that is not helping you what we would call sort of a pain point and then write down all the good things that would happen if you were able to change all of this. You would have more energy, you would fit into your old clothes again, you would reverse your diabetes, you'd drop some medications, you'd get rid of your high blood pressure, list upon list because what we know is that our brain, momentum starts when the pain of staying where we are is greater than the pain of moving forward. And so we can remind our brain of how, and again, air quotes, painful it is to stay here, how harmful it is, how awful it is, whatever words resonate with you. Because when we convince our brain of that, then moving forward seems like the only sensible option. It's like, right, why wouldn't I be doing this? Why aren't I doing this? Okay, I'm going to do it. And it becomes easy.
Dr Mary Barson (12:10): And you don't have to wait until, you know, the metaphorical wheels completely fall off your health. You get to decide when to take action and you can create your own pain point by spending some time thinking about where you are and where you want to be.
Dr Lucy Burns (12:32): People think the majority of weight loss occurs because of what you put in your mouth, but it's actually what happens between your ears. Honestly, it's a brain-based issue, and what we want to do is work with our beautiful brains to make it easy. When we highlight and emphasise the pain points, And we highlight and emphasise the benefits of moving forward, and we just keep reinforcing that to our brain, then that's what happens. That's how you start moving forward. And then you make one little step, as you said, one, pick something, and then, pick something else. And then you, you know, the power of small steps, which we talk about all the time in the 12 weeks, it's the power of small steps.
Dr Mary Barson (13:29): It's that drip, drip, drip, drip that can change mountains. And the thing about small steps is that they can, they are very powerful and they can move and change your life powerfully. And they can either do that for the good. Or they can do that for the worse. They are powerful in both directions. And so you want to be able to take those small steps that are going to be powerfully good for you, rather than continuing to take small steps that are powerfully bad. The beautiful thing is that you can do this and it's possibly a lot easier than you think.
Dr Lucy Burns (14:07): Absolutely. And again, this is where we go, okay, well, you know, to use our favourite phrase, make the right thing easy or the helpful thing easy, make the wrong thing or the unhelpful thing hard. So part of the reason I think the 12 Week Mind Body Rebalance is so effective is because it gives people a structure. And when it all feels hard, the story in our head can be, it's too much. I've got to do too much. I've got too much, you know, I'm too far gone. And this is why people want to, you know, again, when they're overwhelmed in their life when everything feels like it's piling on, your brain goes, the only solution to this overwhelm is to run away to a deserted Island, because that feels, you know, like that's what you need. Except that, as we've talked about, most of us don't have deserted islands and running away is often an option. And so we get stuck back to the, well, then there's nothing I can do because I have to run away to a deserted island. And it can feel the same when you want to change your health, when you want to improve your weight, when you want to, it feels like, Oh my God, I've got so far to go. There are so many things I'm doing. Again, air quotes. wrong. How can I turn this all around? And the answer is, you know, one step at a time.
Dr Mary Barson (15:23): The other thing that our program, the 12 Week Mind Body Rebalance, gives people, it gives you structure, skills, knowledge, tools, and a tribe. You know, we are social creatures and it is much easier to adopt new behaviours when you're doing it in a supportive environment with other people.
Dr Lucy Burns (15:47):. Ah, totally. And you know, that comes back to the three C's, doesn't it? The content, the coaching, and the community. The content we talked a lot about last week with calorie counting. Part of the reason we are in this place where we've been, where we're trapped in diet land and diet culture is because the content that we were taught was wrong. The calorie counting is We have to unlearn that. So we've got to learn content. We've got to learn a new way. Coaching is about the mindset stuff. So how do I motivate myself? You know, what little tools, what little tricks can I use when, when I'm not feeling motivated? And there's lots, I mean, this is part of what we teach and part of what we live. So, you know, you and I Miss, it's not like we're motivation queens. We do things that we don't always want to do. And I think most people in their life do things you don't always want to do. once. Those things are just part of your identity, though. You do it without even thinking. So it becomes simple. So if you identify as a walker, then you are likely to go walking. If you identify as a swimmer, as I do, I imagine myself swimming. I am a swimmer. I tell myself I'm a swimmer. I watch the Olympic swimming. I love swimming. Even on days where I don't want to go because that's part of who I am. That's what I do for movement. That's the layers of change. Yes. Yes. Yes. In fact, tell us about those Miss?
Dr Mary Barson (17:29): Yeah. So there are three layers of change and often. Most of us don't get beyond the first one, I'm, for those who aren't watching on YouTube, I'm making a little circle with my hands. I'm imagining that I'm holding a sphere. The outer layer of change is outcomes. Yeah. And this is what we generally focus on, losing weight. You know, run a fun run, reduce my medications. That's the first layer of changing changing your outcomes. It's the level with your, you're concerned with your results and most of the goals that people make are associated with changing, um, this level of change. And yeah, definitely we want to, we want to change our outcomes, but it's not enough to focus just on the outcomes. The next layer in this little sphere is the processes. This is actually the outcome of what we get. But the processes, the second layer, that is what we do. And this is like, um, level with changing your habits, which we're talking about, which is totally doable. Where do you know how changing your systems, implementing, you know, the, the new routines, the meal prepping, actually going to the pool and swimming? And most of the habits that we build are associated with this level of change and habit-building is extremely powerful because habits. are the things that we do automatically without having to expend much brain power or energy in doing it. Like switching on the light. Like switching on the light, exactly. And they are powerful and they can be powerfully good or powerfully bad. Like it or not, we've got hundreds upon hundreds of automatic behaviours that we do every single day. And if you can craft habits that are helpful, rather than just allowing, you know, by default habits that are unhelpful, then you really can change your life and turn your life around, turn your health around. But even the deepest layer, the little kernel in this imaginary sphere that I'm holding is identity. This is the deepest layer of change. This level is concerned with changing your beliefs, you know, what you believe to be true about yourself. And also about others in the world around you, and what you believe. So most of our beliefs and assumptions and the biases that we hold are at this level and your identity is what you believe and you can change your identity and true a lasting change. is identity change. You, gorgeous Dr Lucy, you are a swimmer. You know, me, I nourish my body with real food. You know, I am a nature lover to get out in nature every day. You know, I love nature. That's just who I am, and these things are really important to me and really helpful to me. And you get to choose, you get to choose what you believe.
Dr Lucy Burns (20:37): Yeah. Do you know one of the most profound habit changes that I've had in the last few years that I've not really acknowledged very much is I used to drink a lot of diet drinks, diet soft drinks, diet Coke, diet Pepsi, Pepsi Max, whatever it is, probably at least so two 600ml a day? So at least a litre, it was what I drank instead of water. And it never occurred to me not to do it. In my mind, it was harmless to me, I'm just, whatever. Part of my identity shift along with you is I'm a real fooditarian. And I also have now a just intense contempt for processed food companies. So Coca-Cola, and PepsiCo, are wicked companies and I would never support them now. And so I never buy diet drinks. And it's only just now that I'm thinking about it that's actually a profound change in my habit, you know, and what I just do now. So I, I've saved tons of money at the petrol station because I'm not buying Pepsi every time I go there. I don't have, you know, empty bottles of Pepsi Max in my car anymore. And I'm not supporting a hideous company. So huzzah for me.
Dr Mary Barson (22:09): Yeah, absolutely. I'm reaffirming my commitment and my belief to, you know, I nurture my body in all the ways that I can, and I nurture my body with fasting. I made a deliberate decision to not do that while my body was otherwise very very stressed and I. You know, would do that every single time. And it has been pretty easy for me to get back into fasting, just to use that as an example, because it is in line with my beliefs. And I just needed to do a few little things, just looking at that cue, desire, response, reward, just to get back into it. And it was just a few little things like accountability. I just told my parents that I'm, uh, you know, I'm back into fasting these guys and they're into it too. And so, you know, I just, just told them and that was enough. So, you know, that was enough that the idea of not doing it suddenly became just that little bit more unappealing. Um, you know, because, you know, I was working on the craving, I was making it unappealing because I, you know, didn't want to front up to them. So yeah. Sorry, still not doing it. Uh, and at the reward as well as that, you know, that accountability. Hey, I did it. Woo. Go me. And the other thing I do is I just track it. That's a great way to, to make the, to, um, work on that reward, to make it immediately rewarding for me is the star chart. I'll tell you what. I am a sucker for a good little star chart. Put my little star on there, or in this case, I actually just colour in a star that's already there. And I'll just get that little dopamine hit from saying yes. I did the thing that I was going to do. I just bring that reward into that immediate moment. And I don't think I'll need to continue doing these things for very long. It was just enough to get me started. And then that momentum is building that self-confidence, that self-efficacy that I can keep going. And as I do it, I am a person who sets myself the goal to do a short, safe, you know, a little intermittent fast and then I do it. Then that provides evidence to my brain that I am the type of person who can do, you know, healthy fasting. I am a person who nourishes and nurtures my body with intermittent fasting. Look, I am nourishing my body with intermittent fasting. This is who I am. So I'm reinforcing that identity. And all it took was just to start and then it can snowball in a really positive way and change your identity.
Dr Lucy Burns (24:30): Yeah, totally. And I love that because what you're doing is you're taking action and sometimes action begets action, which then for, you know, momentum and momentum is motivation because you're in momentum. Like it's sort of, it's the opposite of waiting for the right time. You just create the right time.
Dr Mary Barson (24:57): And that's why something like a program, you know, a structured program can be great because it makes it easy. You start and once you start, then, you know, you start building all of the habits in a useful, helpful way. It's easier to keep going.
Dr Lucy Burns (25:15): Yeah. And I think what I love is that the accountability that you're talking about is process-focused. Not outcome-focused, because sometimes I think we're not always in control of the outcomes and people get back to calorie counting and diet culture. We've been told you'll lose half to one kilo a week every week for however long to get to your goal. And that's, that's not true. And so people are set up with this expectation that this will happen. And of course, if you're insulin resistant, you've got to wait for your insulin levels to come down. There's a whole heap, a bazillion factors that are involved in the outcome. And so what we want to do is go, well, let's focus on the process and we do the process. And if we've got the process right, then the outcome should arrive. If the outcome isn't arriving, then we have to look at the process and think, well, what could we do differently with the process? Not the process. What most of us do, is just stop.
Dr Mary Barson (26:19): Yeah, that's right. When you don't lose the one kilo a week or whatever it is that you decided that, you know, you had to lose and you told your friends that you were going to do that, then you get a terrible cold and you're all inflamed and who knows what else. And you just, can't control physiological processes completely. We do this with kids, you know, your GP helping kids to stop wetting the bed, you know, star charts can be really helpful, but it's never, ever, you should never put a child on a star chart that waking up dry in the morning gives them a star cause they can't control that. This is the things that you can control, you know, the behaviours that, that you can control is what you should be doing. Wanting accountability and also rewarding yourself.
Dr Lucy Burns (24:07): Yeah, absolutely. And, um, beautiful brains, we can master this like this is self-mastery. And I love that phrase because it puts you in control. Like you have the power to control many components. What we spend a lot of time though, is trying to control the things that are outside our control. And then neglecting the things that are within our control. So if we focus on those bits that are within our control, learning new skills, a great example, a couple of weeks ago, I spoke about learning crochet to crochet little hearts. Currently, I'm learning videography skills to make better social media videos. And honestly, I find it really hard. And part of me doesn't want to do it. I go, I don't want to do this. It's so hard. And I set it all up and it doesn't work. And I've spent hours creating this thing and nobody watches it. And again, whether someone watches it or not is outside my control. All I can do is know in my heart of hearts that I will get better at this. That it will become faster. And my motivation, if you like, I keep going back to that, what is my motivation for doing this hard thing? And that is, because if last week you heard about, you know, the thing that was getting on my goat, it is to, balance the plethora of misinformation on calorie counting and weight loss and balance out there, you know, not only are there people out there just giving wrong information, there are also people out there who are awful. And basically, I don't know why anyone follows them. They get yelled at. They get told they're stupid. They get told if they're not doing this they're an idiot and you're just going to end up fat and rah, rah, rah. And it's just this jarring thing. And I think, Oh, somebody out there has to give the correct metabolic advice and the correct, you know, self-compassion and behavioural change advice. And if that doesn't involve me having to learn hard things like videography, then I will do that.
Dr Mary Barson (29:19): You're an absolute star, Lucy. Um, and I love, I, I love that motivation and the reason for it because it's what you believe. It is true to your identity. You are someone who provides inspiration. Useful, helpful information to the world and, that is why you will develop the habit of being a great video editor.
Dr Lucy Burns (29:43): Ah, absolutely. And people, I'm going to be making videos like crazy, so please watch them, watch them.
Dr Mary Barson (29:21): That's right.
Dr Lucy Burns (29:22): Like them, share them. Please help me out.
Dr Mary Barson (29:55): Give us a bit of reward here to reinforce this behaviour with Dr Lucy's habit loop.
Dr Lucy Burns (30:00): Exactly. Indeed. Indeed. Making the right thing easy, fun, enjoyable, and rewarding, and making the wrong thing hard, difficult, painful, and unsatisfying. That's what we need to do, and you can do it. Absolutely. All right, my lovelies. Well, I think we've given a couple of good ideas on how to get motivation. Know that you can cultivate the habit of getting motivated. Motivation doesn't just descend down, you make your own. And it's an infinite resource once you know how to do it.
Dr Mary Barson (30:40): See you later, lovely one.
Dr Lucy Burns (30:41): Bye. See you next week.
Dr Lucy Burns (30:46): The information shared on the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast, including show notes and links, provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.
