Episode 104 Summary
- Emma Gilmour is a This Naked Mind and Grey Area Drinking alcohol coach. She specifically works with women who find that their relationship with alcohol is not serving them well. She works to bring awareness to what is actually happening with their relationship with alcohol.
- Emma worked in corporate marketing. She found that due to her stressful lifestyle that she lacked resilience and her relationship with alcohol was not serving her in a positive way, so she had a spiritual awakening and changed careers and retrained as a counsellor and psychotherapist.
- This Naked Mind is a famous book by Annie Grace. The methodology involves applying a combination of science, compassion and awareness to stop drinking alcohol. It is a very different approach to the usual white-knuckling techniques.
- Unfortunately there is a misconception. People believe that individuals with dysfunctional relationships with alcohol are all homeless and non-functioning, but in truth these individuals are the minority. Normal, functional people may find that alcohol is controlling their lives. Due to this misconception there is often shame and people keep their struggles private.
- The goal is to get back in control of your relationship with alcohol. The key is truly and deeply understanding it, and reflecting on whether or not it is helpful in the ways we believe it might be.
- Acceptance of alcohol as a stress management tool has increased. Alcohol has been normalised and is being included and inserted into a variety of activities, including painting classes.
- Alcohol can lead to a hormonal cascade. This can decrease our restful sleep and increase stress hormones and anxiety, despite us believing that it can help us to sleep or relax. If we then turn to alcohol to cope with our stress or tiredness it can become a vicious cycle and possibly unhelpful.
- The Great Aussie Alcohol Experiment is Emma’s daily program. She works through the 10 key limiting beliefs that people have about alcohol. There are daily lives and a Facebook Community. The goal of the experiment is awareness, so it’s impossible to fail.
- Emma Gilmour’s business is Hope Rising Coaching. She also offers a free awareness worksheet, assisting you to connect mindfully with your relationship with alcohol and gather some information. She also offers a free 5 day alcohol reset, which is an introduction to her coaching.
- This can be a journey of self discovery and the beginning of truly understanding yourself.
- The awareness worksheets: Try these sheets in the lead up to taking a break from alcohol, or if you are not ready to take a break yet “all change happens on the other side of awareness”: https://www.hoperisingcoaching.com/pl/2147565979
- Emma's main program, the Aussie Alcohol Experiment: https://www.hoperisingcoaching.com/aussiealcoholexperiment
- Website www.hoperisingcoaching.com
- Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hoperisingcoaching/
Emma Gilmour:
A deeply feminist counsellor and coach, helping mid-life bad ass women find their groove without booze.
Emma’s mission is to get rid of the stigma surrounding seeking help to change our relationship with alcohol. You will find no shame, blame or judgement in Emma’s coaching program. She works with women wherever they are on their journey with alcohol and whatever they want their coaching outcome to be: to take a break, to moderate or to go alcohol free. Her goal is to help women take back control and find the freedom of making alcohol a small and insignificant part of their life.
Emma helps women step into their personal power by shifting their mindset around alcohol, moving from a place of deprivation to a place of nourishment and self love. She helps families improve their emotional well-being through the present, peaceful, connection that a healthy relationship with alcohol can bring.
Emma's upcoming programs:
Join Emma's 3 day virtual retreat ‘Change your relationship with alcohol -in just 3 days- without stopping drinking’ 24th-26th October 7:30-8:30 here: https://www.hoperisingcoaching.com/change-your-relationship-with-alcohol
Register for her Masterclass on the ‘5 Surprising Ways taking a break from booze can be effortless AND change your life’ October 27th at 5pm OR November 2nd at 7pm AEST here: https://www.hoperisingcoaching.com/5-surprising-ways-masterclass-registration-Oct%20Nov
Take a 30 day break from booze with my Live Aussie Alcohol Experiment - Doors close on the 2nd November for a 3rd November start date: https://www.hoperisingcoaching.com/aussie-alcohol-experiment-november-2022
Show notes:
The Aussie Alcohol Experiment
Dr Mary Barson: (0:11) Hello, my lovely listeners. I'm Dr. Mary Barson.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:15) And I'm Dr. Lucy Burns. Welcome to this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss. Good morning, lovely listeners. It's Dr. Lucy here. I hope you are having a fabulous morning. I have the most wonderful guest for us to listen to today. And I'm sure you are going to learn lots and be inspired, because she's a beautiful human. And as you know, we love beautiful humans. So I would love to welcome to the podcast, my friend, Emma Gilmour. Welcome, Emma.
Emma Gilmour: (0:51) Hello, Lucy, thank you so much for having me on your lovely podcast. What a lovely introduction.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:56) Ah, well, you're welcome gorgeous girl. You know, you have topics that are close to my heart for many reasons. And we have spoken off air about the alignment in our approach to these issues. So I would love you to tell our audience, what do you actually do? And how do you help people?
Emma Gilmour: (1:17) So I am a counsellor. I'm a psychotherapist. And I'm a This Naked Mind and Grey Area Drinking alcohol coach. So in my day to day job, I work with women generally in midlife, who have come to a place where they think alcohol may not be working for them. And they just want to do a little bit of investigation into their relationship with alcohol, potentially see what opens up for them. For some people that might be that they moderate alcohol, for some people, it might be that they decide to take a break or a longer break from alcohol. And for some people, they just go back to how they were before. That's my role. That's what I do.
Dr Lucy Burns: (2:01) I love that. So you, I guess, are helping people bring some awareness to their relationship and what's going on for them with regards to alcohol?
Emma Gilmour: (2:11) That's right. That's right. I started working in this area about three years ago, mainly because I was in mid-life like so many of us. I was in mid-life.
Dr Lucy Burns: (2:24) You’re in the prime of your life.
Emma Gilmour: (2:26) Yeah, exactly. I was about to come into the just the most wonderful type of creative time of my life. And I had discovered that a lot of things in my life - and I think this happens to a lot of us - a lot of things in my life weren't necessarily - that I thought were the kind of duct tape of my existence - weren't necessarily working for me. I worked in corporate marketing, I ran every day, I ate healthily - I thought I ate healthily. I was really running on adrenaline and caffeine and alcohol. And it didn't take much. I think I had a couple of toxic work situations. And I was extremely brittle. I just didn't really have any resilience in me. Because I think I'd been living this really sort of adrenaline filled, fight or flight life for so long, wearing busyness as a badge of honour, like so many of us do. So I ended up having to walk away from my career. I had what I like to call my spiritual awakening, many people would call it my breakdown. So I had a little breakdown and I had to rebuild myself from scratch. And so that's when I trained to be a counsellor and psychotherapist. And along that pathway, I decided to change my relationship with alcohol. And it was through that process that I found my calling and decided that that was where I wanted to focus, my counselling, my coaching. And so I qualified with a couple of different kinds of methodologies. One is This Naked Mind, which is a very famous book about how Annie Grace, the author, uses lots of science to stop drinking and very much in line with what you do Lucy, came from, a place of great compassion. Compassion, awareness, gentle loving kindness. It was such a different approach to taking a break from alcohol, or stopping drinking than I'd ever seen before. Before when I'd done Dry July, Sober October, Feb Fast. I'd always been like, “This is hell, and I'm gonna drink heaps before I go. And then when I come out the other end, I'm going to drink more than I drank beforehand”.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:39) Yes, counting down the days till it's finished.
Emma Gilmour: (4:42) Just having a dreadful time. Really deprived and we've talked about this. We’re kind of punishing ourselves. It's an awful experience.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:52) Do you know there's a couple of themes that you've brought up that I see a lot actually in women who are in this sort of midlife and you know, it's often called the midlife crisis, but you use the word awakening. And I find that too, this midlife awakening, where it's suddenly like, something smacks you over the head to say, “You know what, you're not living your purpose here. This is not what you're meant to do.” And it sounds exactly like that's what happened to you.
Emma Gilmour: (5:22) Totally. I had left my career and I knew, I was following my nose. And I knew that I wanted to train in something in the helping profession. And then I just had a few little things happen. My daughter said to me one night after we'd had a house party at our house, she was like, “Mom, can you stop bringing wine into the bedroom when you're putting us to sleep? Because it makes us feel anxious.” And I was like,”Oh!” And then I had another situation where I'd fallen into a rosebush after a very normal night, a very normal night at a girlfriend's house. Some people were drinking, some people weren't. I probably had a bottle of wine. And I slipped as I was coming out of my friend's house, and I got my neck impaled in a rosebush. And oh my gosh, it almost went through the jugular. So I ended up having to go to hospital and it was just all this stuff. And I was like, “Really, Emma, you're nearly 50!”
Dr Lucy Burns: (6:17) Yeah.
Emma Gilmour: (6:20) And then I've got that bit, which I find so many women do in midlife, whereby it feels a little bit like alcohol’s controlling you. So, you wake up in the morning, you'll be like, “I don't want to drink today”. But by five o'clock, it's like someone's taken your body over. And you pour yourself a glass of wine. And that was happening to me. And then especially if I drank, which I generally only drank on Friday, Saturdays and Sundays as a rule. But I remember I'd wake up at three o'clock in the morning and there’d just be so much self recrimination. And just so much meanness, you know.
Dr Lucy Burns: (6:52) Yes, yes. That self loathing,
Emma Gilmour: (6:55) Yes. Now, I know why that happens. And it's very chemical as much as it is psychological. But at the time, I was like, this isn't how I live, surely life's not supposed to be like this.
Dr Lucy Burns: (7:07) And you know, I think that there's the issue is that people have this idea that you're… If you have a problem with alcohol that like the image is that you're the homeless drunk living on the streets. And in fact, they're the rarity. And the majority of people who are dealing, where alcohol is perhaps controlling their lives, are just normal, functional people.
Emma Gilmour: (7:35) That's right. That's right. And it's so interesting that we have this kind of “othering”. And it almost stops us from looking at our problem, because we think that people will, you know, we use terms like alcoholic, we use terms like, ‘problem’, someone with a problem with alcohol, and we make it bad
Dr Lucy Burns: (7:54) “Problem drinker!” Yeah, we whisper.
Emma Gilmour: (7:58) And we have, you know, people talk about having interventions.
Dr Lucy Burns: (8:02) Yeah, yeah.
Emma Gilmour: (8:03) Whereas for most people, it's just, most of the time it's very private, very shameful, very shameful. For people, it's like, “What's wrong with me? I must be the only one?” because of course, we've othered it. So no one talks about it.
Dr Lucy Burns: (8:18) Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Emma Gilmour: (8:21) But you're right. It's generally high functioning, and particularly women in midlife find that, with the onslaught of the hormones that come along with perimenopause as well, suddenly, alcohol is not working in their body the way that it used to. And suddenly, they can't, you know, the impact of, you know, a couple of glasses of wine is incredibly huge on their bodies. And they're so like, what's happening? What's going on? I don't get it!
Dr Lucy Burns: (8:48) Ah, the 20 year old body is so much better at rejuvenating. The poor body, than perhaps as we get older, and we all know this, you know, you used to be able to slam down a few, half a dozen drinks and wake up the next morning, just toddle off. And now, for people that do that, you know, they're unconscious in their bed till one o'clock in the afternoon.
Emma Gilmour: (9:10) That's exactly right.
Dr Lucy Burns: (9:12) So, I think one of the things I've noticed, and I'm sure you have, is the increasing acceptance of using alcohol as a tool to manage your stress. What do you think about that?
Emma Gilmour: (9:27) Yes, it's a big one, isn't it? It's so interesting, all these beliefs. And I know you talk about mindset a lot in your work. But all these beliefs that we have, and part of the work that I do, one of the key pillars is, let's look at all the reasons we think we like to drink and when you write out all the reasons that you think you'd like to drink, those are the kinds of beliefs - the limiting beliefs, the stories that we have about alcohol - generally, every single one of those stress relief, relaxing, helps me sleep makes me more fun, makes me more social. All of those things. When you actually dig into it the opposite is true!
Dr Lucy Burns: (10:06) Yeah, yeah.
Emma Gilmour: (10:07) The actual opposite is true. It's like, for sleep. It floods your body with adrenaline and cortisol. It means that you wake up at three o'clock in the morning, because your body's like, yeah, like what? Yeah, and it's not a not a nice thing. Not a nice way to wake up either. It's an unpleasant way. And for relaxing, as I said before, it's like, literally, you get the dopamine from the drink. And that kind of is like, feels like “Aaaah”, and then immediately afterwards, your body comes in and is like, “Right here, we're going to flood you with adrenaline and cortisol and dynorphins. And those things together. That's why so many people struggle with anxiety and stress, post drinking, because, in fact, we numb for a minute, but actually, the tail end of the impact of those stress hormones means that actually, it creates, we're more stressed from drinking, than we were before we started drinking. And we've got more anxiety.
Dr Lucy Burns: (11:09) It is the absolute wolf in sheep's clothing, isn't it? It promises you relaxation, but actually makes the problem worse.
Emma Gilmour: (11:17) That's it.
Dr Lucy Burns: (11:18) And then the solution to ‘the problem is worse’, is to drink more.
Emma Gilmour: (11:21) That's right. And also, you know, we feel bad. We think we're like, “Oh, my God, I've done that again, or I drank more than I said, or, you know, why can't I just have two drinks like Fred?” You know, and you know, the Freds are unusual. You know? For most people, it's a chemical, you know, that it chemically, the dopamine that we get from a drink, means that chemically we want to chase that high, because the, you know, the other hormones and other chemicals are coming into our bodies. And actually, we just want to keep chasing that dopamine, but we're never going to, we never get the same result.
Dr Lucy Burns: (11:54) No, no, it is so interesting, isn't it, that idea that it's actually easier to have none than some for many people. But our brain says, “Go on, just have one, just have half a glass, you'll be fine. You can put it away.” And so you do that, and woah. It's like letting the genie out of the bottle.
Emma Gilmour: (12:18) That's right. That's right. And some people absolutely, some people are really - I choose not to - I'd never say I'm never going to drink again. Because that's way too stressful for my brain. But I have got to a place with alcohol. And very much the work that we do around mindset is that I don't have any desire for it. For me, it's not, you know, it's not something that's attractive to me anymore. And I'd rather not have it. But that doesn't have to be the end goal with this at all, reducing your consumption of alcohol is hugely beneficial. And anyone who says it has to be one way or the other is, you know, I think we cut off a lot of people because people don't want to necessarily be completely abstinent. And I think you know, we're all risk taking adults, we need to be able to sort of understand what the risks are, and then make an informed decision. But a lot of the time, we don't actually know what the risks are. And also a lot of the time, the risks aren't the thing that's going to stop us drinking anyway.
Dr Lucy Burns: (13:14) No. Again, the parallels with alcohol and sugar are so common. And, you know, I love talking about the three buckets of people. The first bucket is the people that don't care about it at all, like really they have a glass of champagne at a wedding. And that's it. The second bucket, which is the majority of people, are the people that are using or consuming a product, whether it's alcohol or sugar, and it's causing them some harm and some distress. And they know they probably could cut it down, but they just haven't got the tools to do so. Because our only tool that we have is, “You should stop it. And if you can't, then you're hopeless, and you just don't have any discipline”. And then we have got that third bucket of people that really have true addiction, for whom abstinence is really the goal. And same with sugar. They're still the smaller amount, so I reckon learning to know which bucket you're in is actually really helpful.
Emma Gilmour: (14:10) Yeah. And that it's okay and quite normal to be in the middle bucket. And to struggle with it a little bit and for it to have a bit more of a pull on you than you'd like. But that's okay, that's really normal. You know, it's not, you're not suddenly an alcoholic, you certainly don't suddenly, you know, you're not gonna lose your family or your house. So yeah, it's a normal, you know, a chemical reaction, combined with a societal conditioning that we've had since birth, you know.
Dr Lucy Burns: (14:38) Ah, and it's so interesting, because you're right, I mean, alcohol ads are all about fun. Everyone's having fun. You know, drinking is all about fun and that for me, that's my connection to alcohol. If I think of alcohol as it's fun, I don't necessarily think of it as stress relief, but I know lots of people do. But you know, I think ah, it's cocktails with little umbrellas. It's you know, chinking your glasses out with your friends having fun. I mean, you can have fun without drinking.
Emma Gilmour: (15:07) Absolutely. And it's actually doing things and I think it's getting some runs on the board. Because our social lives are so imbued in it. I mean, for me, when I was drinking regularly, the idea of doing something that wasn't alcohol related apart from like sport, was just something that wouldn't kind of enter my brain at all. It'd be like, well, we're going to meet up and have drinks, we're going to eat, we're going to you know, this is this is it.
Dr Lucy Burns: (15:34) Yeah, go out dancing!
Emma Gilmour: (15:36) That's it! But even creating, you know, some parts of your life where you're, you know, you're doing things socially, that aren't drinking can be just a really good thing to do as well, you know, just having a bit of fun doing something, creating an event that's not built around drinking, and eating necessarily can also be a good, really good choice.
Dr Lucy Burns: (15:57) Yeah. And I think you're right, I mean, it's, you know, even as you're talking there, and you're talking about the creating, I'm thinking immediately of now, this new kind of thing that's popped up everywhere, people are doing painting, and drinking. And it's, you know, it's got various names and alliterations. But it's kind of weird, isn't it that suddenly, we can't just go and have fun painting, we've got to pair it with some grog of some sort.
Emma Gilmour: (16:24) That's right. And I think back when I, like you're talking about the, you know, when you're in the space of unawareness, when you're, you're sort of happily going along, and alcohol is not really affecting you. And you're sort of unaware of it, that I would have been all in on that. Like, I'd be like, yes, of course, I wanted to!
Dr Lucy Burns: (16:41) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Emma Gilmour: (16:45) But it's only when it starts having a little bit of a, you know, niggle at you, sort of making you feel a little bit subpar, and you start to think “Oh, it might be a good opportunity for me to have a little break, and maybe see what's going on there. And just have a bit of awareness about what's motivating me to drink, is it me? Or am I being controlled by a sort of chemical?” Which you know, that's how it's set up to make us want more. And it's just useful to just take a little bit of time and understand also why you're drinking. If you're drinking to alter your mood, what is it that you're escaping from? And what is it you're moving towards?
Dr Lucy Burns: (17:29) Yes, yes, I love that. I mean, I know that you're, you have very similar philosophies with us, that it's not, you're not a bad person, you know, you're not bad, because there's this problem that's, you know, it's really about this idea of learning to know yourself, and using those beautiful tools of self compassion to just peel off a few layers and see what's underneath.
Emma Gilmour: (17:55) That's it, because also, it can be a beautiful journey to understand who you are. I mean, I found out when I stopped drinking, this was amazing to me, that I was an introvert.
Dr Lucy Burns: (18:06) Right?
Emma Gilmour: (18:08) Like, I thought I was an extrovert because about 12 years old, when I started drinking, as I was a young British girl kind of and suddenly I was awkward. I read books, but I wasn't very sociable. And I wanted to be different to that, because it didn't seem to be the right thing. And so I used kind of alcohol and stuff, like, you know, to try and create this different persona. And then I'm like, I'm nearly 50, no idea that actually, I was quite shy, you know, and actually, you hadn't quite developed a lot of emotional maturity around how I interact with other people. You know, my sensitivity I was in like, it's quite boundaryless. Very porous boundaries, but didn't have great differentiation between myself and other people. So I'd let other people impact me very strongly. And it was only by taking a break from alcohol. So I did a year to begin with. And that was my struggle. I was like, Well, I'll try and experience all the different things that happen in life. So I thought I'd go through, you know, Easter, Mother's Day, birthday, Christmas, so that I had it as something to fall back on. That was my idea behind it. And it was just fascinating what I found out. With that sort of spirit of curiosity and inquiry, it can be quite an exciting journey and quite transformational journey as well.
Dr Lucy Burns: (19:32) Yes. Yeah. I love that. The fact that it's, it's not depriving, you're actually revealing.
Emma Gilmour: (19:37) Yeah, absolutely. Like so many of these things, isn't it?
Dr Lucy Burns: (19:40) Yeah, absolutely. So, tell us a bit more about what you offer for people. So I mean, I know you know, people go and sign up for Feb Fast, and I'm sure you know, half our audience have done that from time to time. But that's really where you just sign up and you make a pledge not to drink and that's kind of it. But that's your tools. What you offer is completely different, isn't it?
Emma Gilmour: (20:02) Absolutely. So we've got a few different things. So I do one to one coaching, which is kind of standard coaching, all follows the same pattern, all the same methodology. And then I also have some free things that are available. So I've got an awareness worksheet, which you can download. And I would say, this is a really important starting place for everybody. Before we do anything, before you take a break, let's do a bit of mindfulness around what our drinking is actually looking like. When did we start thinking about drinking during the day? What does it look like? Where did we go and get it? Is it in the cupboard already? Is it in our fridge already? Just get some information, what our routines are when we come home from work, do we get a glass out, you know, what do we do? Do we have a shower? That sort of information is really useful.
(20:48) And then we get into actually mindfully drinking. So what happens to me, when I have a drink? If I start thinking about drinking, what was I thinking about immediately beforehand, that might be making me want to have a drink? And so on. So that's kind of the awareness piece. And I think that's really important to do before you take a break, if you can, just get a really good understanding of what's actually going on with you. And then another thing I do I offer as well, that's a free thing which people can do is to, it's a five day alcohol reset. And that's really just a introduction to the way that I work. So you get five days of video content with journaling, and Facebook community. And that's just an introduction to the concepts that will be like, how to love ourselves through this, how to not judge ourselves through this. And then different bits of information about how alcohol actually affects our body. And then it is important that we do the journaling as well. And then there's community support. So that's a self paced thing. And then I have my signature programme, which is The Aussie Alcohol Experiment, which is a daily programme. You get a daily video with a I guess it's called a lesson, a piece of content about alcohol, about our mindset. And we've worked through the kind of 10 key limiting beliefs that people have about alcohol in a live, so we have a live every day. So people get supported all the way through the 30 days. So you've got the community videos, journaling, and then support from me as a trained coach and counsellor.
Dr Lucy Burns: (22:18) Yeah, do you know I love the fact that it's called the experiment, because what the experiment implies is that we don't actually know the outcome. And in fact, we don't really even need to be tied, or married to the outcome, the outcome is just the outcome. This is the experiment of seeing what happens.
Emma Gilmour: (22:37) And that's exactly, I love that you picked up on that, Lucy, because that's exactly right. And that's the goal of the experiment. It is never about not drinking, the goal of the experiment is awareness. So we can never fail, when our goal is awareness. So all we need to do is find out information. And, you know, it may be that you take a 30 day break alongside and it may be that you make all sorts of decisions about that afterwards. But the goal is to understand yourself.
Dr Lucy Burns: (23:09) Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we talk about that a lot, you know, and again, without programs that are centred about, you know, health, but tied in with the weight loss. And we will always say that, you know, it's not a meal plan. It's a journey of self discovery. And it really is this idea of knowing why you do what you do. And being able to change that without judgement on yourself and berating. But with tools. We're not taught these tools, we're just told you should be able to sort it out yourself.
Emma Gilmour: (23:39) That's right, and nine times out of ten with people with alcohol, it's just that we haven't learned we've got a nervous system. It's dysregulated. And we haven't learned to regulate it in any other way. And so it's that kind of growth mindset. We're coming at it from the spirit of training a puppy rather than going into battle with a dragon.
Dr Lucy Burns: (23:58) Yeah, absolutely.
Emma Gilmour: (23:59) Kindly, and we're learning something new, you know?
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:03) Yeah. Which, you know, doesn't have to be perfect. But each time we just keep kind of ploughing on.
Emma Gilmour (24:08) That's exactly right.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:12) That's wonderful. Wonderful. So, Em if people want to find you, where did they find you?
Emma Gilmour: (24:15) So I am at Hope Rising Coaching is my business name. And that's also my instagram handle and my website.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:22) Awesome, beautiful listeners, we will have all of those resources for you in the show notes. So you can go and download them directly from there. Of course you can check out the podcast over on the website and full transcript and everything will be there as well. Emma, thank you so much for the work that you do, and for coming on to our podcast.
Emma Gilmour: (24:44) Thank you so much for having me.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:45) You're welcome. Beautiful listeners have the most glorious of days, and I will catch up with you all next week. Bye for now.
Dr Lucy Burns: (25:00) So my lovely listeners that ends this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss. I'm Dr. Lucy Burns,
Dr Mary Barson (25:08) and I'm Dr. Mary Barson. We’re from Real Life Medicine. To contact us, please visit our https://www.rlmedicine.com
Dr Lucy Burns: (25:18) And until next time, thanks for listening. The information shared on the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast, including show notes and links provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns
