Episode Sixty Two
- What inflammation is - inflammation is the body's response to any kind of irritant, and it plays a major role in acute short-term illnesses and injuries, as well as chronic long-term illnesses and injuries.
- Chronic long-term low-grade inflammation - this is at the heart of almost all chronic lifestyle illnesses.
- Lifestyle illnesses with inflammation at their core - inflammation has an enormous role to play in weight gain, being overweight or obese, having metabolic disease, having insulin resistance, heart disease and depression.
- Short-term acute inflammation - this is our body's immune response to an injury, infection, burn, or allergic reaction. Signs of this are redness, swelling, pain, possible dysfunction, and heat. This is helpful to the body to protect and heal the injured part of the body
- Chronic inflammation - when the inflammatory system is constantly turned on, particularly in a low-grade way, we get serious problems with our health. It is implicated in diabetes, heart disease, chronic arthritis, chronic respiratory disease and depression.
- Metabolism and the immune system - these are completely integrated; one affects the other. People with insulin resistance and metabolic disease inappropriately activate the immune system which can result in chronic, low-grade inflammation, whilst chronic low-grade inflammation can cause insulin resistance and metabolic disease.
- How to reduce chronic low-grade inflammation and heal your metabolism - cease eating refined carbohydrates, refined sugars and industrial seed oils, eat more omega-3 fatty acids, get more sleep, move more, reduce psychological stress and improve gut health.
Episode 62
What is inflammation anyway?
Dr Mary Barson: (0:11) Hello, my lovely listeners. I'm Dr. Mary Barson. And I'm Dr. Lucy Burns. Welcome to this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:23) Good morning, gorgeous Dr. Mary, how are you darling?
Dr Mary Barson: (0:27) Ah, Dr. Lucy, I'm well! Feeling quite pregnant today. But that's a good thing. So we're going with that.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:34) It is a good thing. If you are pregnant, you want to feel pregnant.
Dr Mary Barson: (0:37) If you are pregnant. That's correct.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:40) Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. So, first week of 2022. I can't believe it's already - like everything - everything just moves along quickly. And it's time for us to revisit a series we started calling the complicated basics. So for those of you who haven't heard that before, if you go back a couple of episodes, we just talked about common words that people use, phrases that are kind of bandied about, like oxidative stress and the like, that we thought we'd actually just explain a little further in medical terms, but also in ways that you can actually understand so that, you know, again, knowledge is power. Yes, yep, this is totally your genius zone Mares.
Dr Mary Barson: (1:24) I do get a little bit excited. And you may need to rein me in at times. So don't don't be shy, I won't be offended.
Dr Lucy Burns: (1:31) That's all right. Now, if I don't understand what you're talking about I’ll let everyone know.
Dr Mary Barson: (1:36) Please do.
Dr Lucy Burns: (1:38) Okay, so today, I mean, you're out there, out there in listener land. You have all heard the word inflammation. It is seriously, it's probably you know, along with, with “pivot”, it is one of the current buzzwords, inflammation. So Mares, you're a genius in inflammation, let's talk a little bit about it.
Dr Mary Barson: (1:59) Cool, I'd love to. Very excited about talking about inflammation. So inflammation is a term that is bandied about a lot. And inflammation is a response that our body makes in response to any kind of irritant basically, and it plays a major role in acute - that is short term - illnesses or injuries as well as chronic long term illnesses and injuries. And indeed, chronic - that is long term - low grade inflammation is at the heart of almost all chronic lifestyle illnesses. And more and more research is coming out about this every day. Every day new articles are being published. It really is. We're really on the frontier of our understanding here. And it is becoming evident that actually chronic inflammation has an enormous role to play in weight gain, being overweight, being obese, having metabolic disease, having insulin resistance, to heart disease, depression. Depression is in many ways, an inflammatory condition. And all of these devastating illnesses have got inflammation at their core. But it's not all bad either, as well. So we kind of break this down today and talk about what inflammation actually is. Yeah, so inflammation is something we learn a lot about in medical school. And in fact, you know, the suffix ‘itis’ literally means inflammation. So there are so many conditions that we learn about in medical school that are “itis” you know, we've got, we've got adenitis. Lucy, what else have we got?
Dr Lucy Burns: (3:42) Arthritis.
Dr Mary Barson: (3:43) We've got bursitis.
Dr Lucy Burns: (3:46) We've got myocarditis.
Dr Mary Barson: (3:49) We've got phlebitis
Dr Lucy Burns: (3:53) Oh, that's a goodie. Diverticulitis! we've got tonsillitis
Dr Mary Barson: (3:56) We've got thyroiditis.
Dr Lucy Burns: (3:58) We've got tonsillitis
Dr Mary Barson: (4:00) Love it. Mastitis.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:03) You can almost come up with any organ you like and just stick an “itis” on it. So cholecystitis.
Dr Mary Barson: (4:08) Hepatitis.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:12) Eosophagitis.
Dr Mary Barson: (4:16) Laryngitis. Did we say that one?
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:18) No. Pharyngitis.
Dr Mary Barson: (4:21) Love it. Meningitis.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:24) Conjunctivitis?
Dr Mary Barson: (4:26) Glomerulonephritis.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:29) The interesting thing is that some of these are just almost commonplace words out there. Like everyone knows conjunctivitis means goopy eyes.
Dr Mary Barson: (4:37) That's right.
Dr Lucy Burns: (4:39) Inflammation of the conjunctiva. And, you know, appendicitis. Most people know that's something to do with your appendix. There's other words with it, you know, we perhaps phlebitis, people may not know what that actually means, but it's inflammation of the veins and it's very common after if you've had a IV cannula or a drip put in and it causes irritation to it, it's really common to get phlebitis.
Dr Mary Barson: (5:04) Basically any irritated and annoyed part of your body. You put an “itis” on the end of it and you've got a medical diagnosis, and hundreds of them. It was actually a pretty fun game. I'd like to keep playing that all day, but I think we should probably stop.
Dr Lucy Burns: (5:21) Well, what I'm loving is the idea that irritated and annoyed, I could be Lucyitis.
Dr Mary Barson: (5:25) That's right!
Dr Lucy Burns: (5:27) I can't come to work today. I've got some Lucyitis.
Dr Mary Barson: (5:30) I definitely get irritated and annoyed. Maryitis. Inflammation is normal. And actually, there is an enormous difference between short term inflammation or acute inflammation and long term inflammation - chronic inflammation. We've evolved, in fact, pretty much every multicellular organism, particularly the multicellular animals have evolved this mechanism to protect themselves from infection and injury by having some kind of signalling pathway that helps the body survive any kind of attack. And with us, one of the first responders with any kind of injury or attack is inflammation. So inflammation, short term inflammation, acute inflammation is our body's way of rolling up its sleeves and going, “Right, I am not going to take this insult lying down, I'm going to do something about it.” And the insult is like an injury, traumatic injury or an infection some germs trying to invade and do something. Could be a burn, could be a chemical burn, could be an allergic reaction, that's our immune system just gets a bit confused in allergic reactions, but it is the same sort of thing. And the immune system rushes in with its inflammatory mediators, its inflammatory cytokines and signalling molecules like TNF alpha and all of these things start happening and we get acute inflammation. You guys could all probably imagine what happens if you hit your thumb with a hammer. Probably many of you have done that. I know I certainly have. What happens? Lucy, I'm going back to medical school again. I promise I'm not gonna play the “itis” game again. But what are the five cardinal signs of acute inflammation? Every med student knows this.
Dr Lucy Burns: (7:19) Yes. So we will get some redness, which in medical land is called rubor.. We will get some swelling, we will get some pain. We will get some - depending on where it is - some dysfunction. So like joint dysfunction, if you've whacked your knee, it'll be your knee, if you've got appendicitis, you've got a sore tummy. So what am I up to? Four. What about just swelling? Did I do swelling? Ah, okay, I've done swelling. Okay, heat, So, yes, it'll be red and hot.
Dr Mary Barson: (7:59) Yep, that's exactly it and that is the acute inflammatory system. You pass Lucy. You can be a doctor.
Dr Lucy Burns: (8:06) Hahaha!
Dr Mary Barson: (8:09) That's what acute inflammation is. And it's life saving. It's incredibly helpful. What happens with inflammation? Yeah, it gets red and hot and swollen, the blood flow increases. All of these fabulous helpful parts of our immune system flow in. It becomes painful because our body doesn't want to keep moving it and keep re-injuring it. So that's a protective mechanism. And lots of helpful things are going in place to protect the injured or infected part to heal the injured or infected part and to get everything back to normal. So that's acute inflammation, but chronic inflammation is totally different. So how do we go from you know healing the poor thumb that got hit by the hammer or you know, healing the thumb infection from you know, a splinter? How do we go from this helpful, natural, you know, our body just rolling up its sleeves and doing the job? How do we go from that to chronic inflammation, which is a causative agent in major depressive disorder and Alzheimer's and heart disease and all of these tragic, depressing illnesses that rob us of our life and our quality of life? What is going on?
Dr Lucy Burns: (9:21) You know, one of the interesting things to me Mares is that you know, medicine loves acronyms. We don't actually have one. Like we should be referring all the time to CLGI. Chronic low grade inflammation.
Dr Mary Barson: (9:36) Totally should!
Dr Lucy Burns: (9:38) But there is no CLGI. We never call it CLGI we never call it LI, there's no - it's like it doesn't exist. It's kind of weird. We love talking about all the other things but no, I think we should coin it. We certainly should. CLGI chronic low grade inflammation.
Dr Mary Barson: (9:54) Let's own this and one reason why maybe, this is me just going off the cuff here. It's relatively new to science. I think we first discovered the link between chronic inflammation and obesity in the 1990s. And now we're learning more and more about it all the time. So I don't know if he could get in on the first floor with that acronym. That's a good one because it could take off.
Dr Lucy Burns: (10:22) Yeah, like LCRF. Yeah totally. Yeah, LCRF, low carb, real food. CLGI. There you go. There you go. Peeps, you've heard it first. Start talking to your doctor about your CLGI.
Dr Mary Barson: (10:38) And then look at them funny when they don't understand you. So we’re creating acronyms for chronic inflammation, because it is incredibly important to understand this, I think and to know what you can do about it. First of all, to know why it's a problem and what you can do about it. So when we go from acute inflammation, good, natural, helpful healing, that's the reason why we don't die of a cold, because our body can fight it off. And incidentally, when we have a cold, it's called rhinitis, an inflamed nose.
Dr Lucy Burns: (11:13) Think about it, your nose becomes red, it gets swollen and starts, you know, doesn't become immobile. But that's good to know. It's not very mobile in the first place
Dr Mary Barson: (11:23) It gets totally inflamed. Yeah. But when the inflammatory system is repeatedly turned on or constantly turned on, particularly when it's turned on in the low grade way. That is when we get serious. Serious with a capital S problems to our health. When it goes from the chronic to the systemic inflammation, that's when it becomes a constant feature of our physiology, that is when it becomes a significant problem. And chronic low grade inflammation has been implicated in diabetes, as I said, heart disease, all kinds of chronic arthritis in, you know, chronic respiratory disease and depression. And indeed, just down the road from me in Geelong, Michael Burke, Professor Michael Burke and his colleagues have been doing lots of groundbreaking research on how depression is, in fact, an inflammatory disorder, incredibly fascinating. And why we get into this stage is still a little bit, it's still a bit contentious. I think we're still learning and understanding how this happens. But it really does come down to our metabolism and our metabolic health. And you and I, Lucy, we talk a lot about metabolic health. And we talk a lot about metabolic disease. Metabolic disease being insulin resistance syndrome, elevated blood sugar, high blood pressure, type two diabetes, polycystic ovarian syndrome, fatty liver disease, all of these illnesses that can be treated, and in many cases, completely cured by the type of healthy lifestyle interventions that we advocate, like low carb, real food, but they are intertwined and interlinked with inflammation as well. And this is because, to help us survive as a species, our metabolism and our immune system are totally integrated. They are integrated completely, and one affects the other. And this goes in two ways. So if somebody's really malnourished, you know, people suffering famine times, for example, or people who either voluntarily or involuntarily put themselves on, on calorie restriction for long periods of time, actually become immunosuppressed, their immune system gets weakened, and their defences are down for dealing with sort of the common everyday insults of life.
(13:43) And on the other side, people with metabolic disease, which you know, in many ways is characterised by the body being overwhelmed by the carbohydrates in the diet, for example, and there’s insulin resistance being set up and metabolic disease is being set up, then this is associated with an activation, an inappropriate activation of the immune system that can result in this chronic low grade inflammation. But also incredibly interestingly, chronic low grade inflammation can also be a cause and can activate insulin resistance and metabolic disease. So it goes both ways. So metabolic disease can create low grade inflammation, and low grade inflammation can create metabolic disease. And both of these things are bad, like, really bad, and common, really, really common. We're going to talk about what you can do about this, but we'll just spend a little bit more time dissecting this a little bit more.
Dr Lucy Burns: (14:46) So it really is, you're talking the chicken and the egg. And it's basically what came first? We don't know. And they can both come first.
Dr Mary Barson: (14:53) Absolutely. It's still being unravelled. It's still, I would say the science is still unravelling as to “Is it the inflammation that is causing diabetes and obesity, or is it diabetes and obesity that's causing inflammation?” I'll go through a little bit more details. But it seems that when you sum it up, the available evidence strongly suggests that, you know, type two diabetes and insulin resistance and metabolic disease is caused by inflammation. So that inflammation is sort of the causative effect in those, rather than the effect. But it is an effect as well. So it is a real chicken and egg. And in many ways, I think we're going to learn more and more about this, but in many ways, it kind of doesn't matter, because the actionable steps that our beautiful listeners can do today, right now, are kind of the same regardless.
Dr Lucy Burns: (15:47) And I think that for a lot of things, we often talk about the idea that the prevention of certain things is different to the treatment. And you know, we talk a lot about that with weight loss per se, that once you're insulin resistant, and your a woodshed is shut, that just doing diet and exercise that you've been advised forever will not work. And it's probably the same with this once you've turned, you know, moved into that realm of chronic low grade inflammation, you know, there's things that you can do to help that might be different to prevent.
Dr Mary Barson: (16:24) Totally, yes, absolutely. I think a really important part of understanding the fundamental role that low grade chronic inflammation plays with you know, being overweight or obese, having metabolic disease and diabetes is coming back to the fat cells or you know, what we call the white adipose tissue. We mammals have got two types of fat tissues. We've got brown. Adipose tissue is fat tissue. So that's the “medically” word for it. So when I say adipose, meaning fat, we've got white adipose tissue and brown adipose tissue. Brown adipose tissue in humans, we don't have a lot of it. It's really important for newborns but generally speaking, as an adult, it plays a very limited physiological role. Most of us have got white adipose tissue, and we need it, it's a really important part of our bodies.
Yeah, totally healthy individuals are still like 20%. If you're a man like 20%, white adipose tissue, women 25%, you know, and you can still be healthy and have a lot more than that. So it's perfectly normal and natural to have this. And it's made up of cells that are like inside them, they've got one big droplet of fat, they're like little fat vaults that hold the fat. And all of the cellular contents are kind of squished to the end. But they're not just inert fat storage cells. They're very metabolically active, they're hormonally active, they're metabolically active, and they are immunologically active. So they play important roles in our metabolism, in our physiology, and in all aspects of physiology, including our immune system. They've got receptors for insulin hormone, incredibly important. They've got receptors for the sex hormones, for adrenaline for glucocorticoids, and stress hormones. And they're extremely active cells. And these white adipose tissue cells actually have similar roles. They play similar roles in our immune system as our macrophages which are like one of our major immune cell classes. And there is something that happens in obesity in being overweight and metabolic disease where they become really pro inflammatory, with devastating effects to our health. Again, we're still unravelling, is it the insulin resistance that makes them inflammatory? Or is it the inflammation in the fat cells that makes us insulin resistant? Probably the first one. But we're still unravelling that. And the important thing is that it's not just insulin resistance, that is what we need to treat and insulin resistance can be very easily treated with - it can be effectively treated with low carb, real food and intermittent fasting - the stuff that we the fundamental stuff that we coach and teach and empower people to be able to do. We also need to address the inflammation, which we do, Lucy, we are extremely strong advocates of the lifestyle changes that you need to reduce the inflammation as well. In fact, that is the cornerstone of everything that we do both, you need to do both.
Dr Lucy Burns: (19:31) It's interesting, isn't it? Because, I think, for my whole life, I just thought that fat was a cupboard where you stored your excess energy. And then the day that I worked it out, the day that it occurred to me that it was an organ, and that it made hormones and inflammatory mediators was like a light bulb. So it's an organ like it's, it's a living thing. It's not just somewhere to store the fat.
Dr Mary Barson: (20:00) Yes, and I can remember listening to one of your talks at a low carb doctors event that you articulated so beautifully, some of the hormonal actions of fat and one was that when the insulin receptor locks on to the fat cell, it creates this cascade of of intracellular events that prevents the production or the activation of the enzyme lipase, which is what we need for fat burning. So when insulin is elevated, and it's doing its job, it's communicating with the fat cells telling the fat cells to take on the sugar and convert it to fat, it is literally stopping fat burning. That's just one example of how it is a metabolically active organ. And one example of how elevated insulin and insulin resistance is not good for you. If you've got a weight loss goal, elevated insulin, you can't burn your fat. That is the woodshed is locked.
Dr Lucy Burns: (20:54) Do you know what I've just had a little light bulb over here in my land, it could be called obesitis. Or adipositis!
Dr Mary Barson: (21:07) Yes. This is what metabolic disease, this is what basically should be called, it should be called adipositis. Okay, I'm taking this one!
Dr Lucy Burns: (21:19) Yeah, good. All right. So we've got the CLGI. We've got LCRF. And we've got adipositis. And again, the word obesity. You know, we're very conscious of the fact that it has been used as a pejorative term, it is used as an insult and it is really laced with shame. And it's technically a medical diagnosis that has been weaponized and used by people as an insult. So, you know, let's reclaim adipositis.,
Dr Mary Barson: (21:52) I like it. But I think it is important because there are people out there who would be classed as obese but don't actually have any metabolic disease. And they're metabolically fine. And there are people who are thin, who appear thin, but actually have got a large amount of the metabolically active dangerous white adipose tissue. The other stuff is packed around the organs, that's the dangerous fat, is the fat that is around your organs in your abdominal cavity around that sort of, you know, spare tyre area, the TOFIs we call them. Thin on the outside, fat on the inside. So people who aren't overweight, but are absolutely suffering from chronic low grade inflammation and insulin resistance.
Dr Lucy Burns: (22:34) Because remembering that the you know, in medical land, the definition of overweight, obese and then the term the phrase that I really dislike ‘morbidly obese’, they're just numbers, cut off numbers based on… they’re so rudimentary, that actually rubbish. And we spend a lot of time trying to unpack the damage of that. But the idea that it's actually nothing to do with the number on the scales, per se, but it's all about the level of inflammation in your fat organ. That's really a wonderful way to think about it.
Dr Mary Barson: (23:10) I think it's wonderful. And I reckon it can be extremely empowering, because there really is something you can do about it. You know Lucy, you and I see this all the time. That people start healing their metabolism, healing their bodies, you know, getting rid of joint pain and fatigue and sleeping better. And that those changes can happen sometimes much faster than the weight loss.
Dr Lucy Burns: (23:33) Absolute. In fact, you know what they get rid of? They get rid of their ITISs. So they get rid of their plantar fasciitis, their hepatitis, fatty liver, their supraspenatis, tendinitis from you know, with their sore shoulder, so yeah, it is. You’re right, yes.
Dr Mary Barson: (23:51) You remove the “itis” even before you lose the weight, and for me, I don't know about you, Lucy, but for me, that's just the most important victory of all.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:02) We do love celebrating what we call the non scale victories because health is more than a number. It is absolutely more than a number on the scales. And it's absolutely more than this the shape or size of your body. It is literally about the CLGI - chronic low grade inflammation.
Dr Mary Barson: (24:20) Totally.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:22) And the sooner you can address that the better. So, Mares you mentioned that people can start today. What can they do?
Dr Mary Barson: (24:32) Well I need to understand where this inflammation is coming from. Like it's coming from multiple fronts. It is coming from, you know, big inflamed white adipose tissue but there's also so much in our lifestyle that is causing us to be, that triggers chronic low grade inflammation, which sets up, you know, this whole disaster of metabolic ill health. And this is the stuff that you can do something at out. So it's the toxic diet. And, and I would argue that refined carbohydrates, you know, the refined flours and the refined sugars are definitely a part of that, along with industrial seed oils, and having your omega three and six balance out of whack. So you know, not enough omega threes and too much omega six, which is one of the hallmarks of the standard, you know, Australian diets and American diet or the Western diet. Just lack of sleep, like not having long enough sleep periods, lack of movement, interestingly, just being sedentary, sets up inflammatory cycles within our body, and just moving throughout the day can prevent those inflammatory cycles from being activated. But also overtraining, so that is another cause of stress, which some people fall into the trap of, chronic psychological stress is an inflammatory thing. Our emotions are our physiology, they're not like a separate entity. Also just inadequate rest. Being switched on all the time. And, gut health. So these are really the things that precipitate chronic low grade, inflammation, and all things that we can fix.
Dr Lucy Burns: (26:11) Do, you know, Mares, just to go back a little bit too, when we did the stress, the complicated basics and stress, we talk a lot about the fact that there's cycles that we have a cycle that we need to complete. So we have the stress, the activation of the stress cycle, and then we close it with the rest phase. And we do it in our, in our physiology all the time, you know, even our heartbeat, there's a there's a heartbeat, and then there's the rest phase, and then there's the beat. And then there's the rest phase. And I think what we're seeing for a lot of things is that our rest phase, not so much in the heartbeat, isn't long enough. So our sleep, where we're meant to be resting, our sleep, the rest bit’s not long enough, the idea of resting our brain, we don't we don't allow our brain to rest, we constantly stimulating it with the with particularly phones, and we're going to do an episode on that coming up. But you are right. And it's the same with that inflammation, like the acute inflammation. If you close the cycle, it's fine. But with chronic inflammation, we don't close the cycle.
Dr Mary Barson: (27:17) That's right, that's what sets us up to be so out of balance. We need balance in our lives.
Dr Lucy Burns: (27:23) Our body needs to go and have a listen to last week's episode about the keep stop start.
Dr Mary Barson: (27:28) Yes, indeed.
Dr Lucy Burns: (27:31) Bearing in mind, of course, that our body is really at the mercy of our mind. So it's all about what our mind decides to do. If our mind decides it's not going to do any of that stuff, well, then the body just has to wear the consequences. And that's often what a lot of our chronic diseases is. Not every single chronic disease, obviously, there are just some people that have certain chronic diseases that are just, you know, part of their genetic makeup. But for a lot of these, you know, really long term devastating conditions that we as medical people treat with medicine, multiple medicines, a lot of the time, you can actually improve by changing your lifestyle.
Dr Mary Barson: (28:10) Yes. And it's all the things that we do you know, like I know our 12 week Mind Body rebalance program, our three month dedicated lifestyle program with intensive coaching, we teach people about the food. So you know, getting rid of the toxic components of your diet, and the high carb components of your diet, which has the dual effect of treating inflammation and insulin resistance with, you know, one delicious meal at a time. About managing your mind so that you can make these incremental behaviour changes that you need in order to be healthier and to reduce your inflammation and reduce your insulin resistance. We talked about reducing your stress, your chronic psychological stress, this is you know, you can't often can't, you know make life more stressful, but you can increase your own resilience to stress. We teach fasting, which is a really useful tool for reducing inflammation and reducing insulin resistance as well as sleep. Sleep is so important and often underrated and we have also have a module on gut health. So with really actionable and doable lifestyle changes you can wrestle back your health from the clutches of chronic low grade inflammation. It's extremely doable and I really hope that our beautiful listeners feel empowered to, you know, make some positive changes.
Dr Lucy Burns: (29:37) Decrease the “itis”
Dr Mary Barson: (28:39) Yes! Totally within your power decrease the “itis”.
Dr Lucy Burns: (29:43) Lovelies if you would like to join the waitlist for the 12 week Mind Body rebalance. It starts the first week of Feb. So head over to our website, https://www.rlmedicine.com and you'll see a little banner at the top that says “join waitlist” you will hear first up, when the doors are going to open and what our bonuses will be with that.
Dr Mary Barson: (30:03) I love it. It's so wonderful. Three months of empowering, healing and good fun.
Dr Lucy Burns: (30:09) And re-balancing, getting back the active and the rest phases. Lovelies, this has been delightful. We hope, I know it might feel a little bit intense about you know, all the “itis” but honestly if you do, you know, our podcast is called Real Health and Weight Loss. It's not just about the numbers on the scales. It really is about reclaiming your health. And you can absolutely do this.
Dr Mary Barson: (30:36) Bye bye beautiful listeners.
Dr Lucy Burns: (30:38) See you next week lovelies, bye for now. Lovely listeners. As you know, we run the 12 week Mind Body rebalance three times a year. The next one starts in February. If you'd like to join the waitlist and get early access to bonus offers, head over to our website, rlmedicine.com and join the waitlist today. So my lovely listeners that ends this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss. I'm Dr. Lucy Burns,
Dr Mary Barson: (31:11) and I'm Dr. Mary Barson we’re from Real Life Medicine. To contact us please visit our https:www.rlmedicine.com
Dr Lucy Burns: (31:21) And until next time, thanks for listening.
Dr Lucy Burns: (31:30) The information shared on the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast, including show notes and links provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.
